Hot off the presses, we’ve got another new first floor plan for the Broad Ripple Village Parking Garage (BRV Garage). This was presented to the Broad Ripple Village Association (BRVA) land use committee last night.
From Tom Healy of the BRVA: “There will be an opportunity to see the most updated plans this Thursday at Envision Broad Ripple, 5:30-8 @ the Indpls Art Center. The developer and the architects will be in attendance to make a presentation about the project and to answer questions.”
What do you think of the latest design iteration? For comparison, you can view the previous two first floor plans here.
Do you know where the bank drive thru traffic goes after exiting the drive thru?
Back around to College or south through the alley to 62nd?
On first look I thought it was better, then I realized it may seem better because it isn’t as bad as the previous version meaning it isn’t good, just not as bad. What is the green space even good for? I think it might be wise to provide that entire area as natural drainage/filtration. I still don’t see how this can be approved with the traffic concerns. Signs and paint on the ground is great on a site plan, but people don’t care. Turn only or no turn signs mean you simply look around before doing it and when it rains or snows, you won’t be able to see them. Cars WILL go the wrong way. I hate the drive thru and no revision will help. It makes for a car only atmosphere and that is it. If you are too lazy to get out of your car to go to the bank, then you don’t get your money. This design and the entire project is very weak. It is too bad really.
Dont confuse me for being hugely supportive of this project but we can take some positives for this. The sidewalk for one, along College, looks to be as wide as the E side of the street which means an ample amount for walking. Additionally, the amount of retail space that will be there will help stretch the village across College a little bit. The scale of the garage itself doesnt appear like it will compete too much so I am not bothered about that. The green space, well that bugs me too and I wish that were expanded but really, who is going to hang out there on the side of a parking garage? the towpath is there, and that is what should be promoted.
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Im not excited about a parking garage going in AT ALL. Id prefer to see residential, but that too, would require some sort of parking structure, so I guess we are stuck no matter what way we go. Of course, robust rail transit could help but we all know that we are years away. I suppose making the best of what is there now is all we can do.
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What would you suggest make this even better anyway Joe?
Ultimately it is beyond this single project. The garage is unfortunate to be in the position as the target of my over-arching rant about transportation. If we cater to the car, we get projects that do the same. You state that even a residential project would need parking……….would it? We are not NY, but they are lobbying for projects without parking. If we actually want to change habits, we need to provide the conditions that change habits.When I lived DT, the parking for the building cost money. I chose to leave my car at my parents house outside of the city and did everything by walking, cycling or by bus. It completely changed my lifestyle in 1 year. If parking were free I have no doubt my vehicle use would have grown exponentially, but now I am trying to find a viable way to give up the car all together. This garage project may be alright. I approve of the attempt at “mixed-use” and certainly approve of bike parking and dedication for electric vehicles…although I of course have an arguement for those as well. My main concern is that we keep telling ourselves something is better than what used to be there or with the way we currently favor transportation, this is all we could do. When will that change?
Joe, the bloggers here are where I was some years back: they have young kids at home. Walking everywhere isn’t an option with young kids. Can’t walk to daycare, can’t walk to grocery, can’t walk to pediatrician, can’t walk to visit Grandma and Grandpa.
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The kind of social and technological “change back” necessary to turn back the clock to an all-walkable world and force fit a policy of “no parking garages” just isn’t ever going to happen. The vast majority of us will never live full, productive family lives in Indianapolis without cars.
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I think the best focus is on helping cars, bikes, and pedestrians coexist safely and efficiently for everyone. And that means we have to find places to drive and to park cars, and probably some places to put drive-through service.
” If you are too lazy to get out of your car to go to the bank, then you don’t get your money.”
Or you are handicapped, elderly, injured, or any number of other reasons. Not everyone is a healthy 30 year old. Of course, the need for another bank branch there hasn’t really been explained.
I have to agree, though, that this plan seems bizarre. Traffic exiting onto Westfield Boulevard? At the very least, put the entrance/exit at the southern-most portion of the parcel. The garage will be used when the area is busy. When the area is busy, the traffic backs up from the “point” all the way south. There is no way that a car can exit there — even if it wanted to turn north.
I understand that point, but many places exist without drive throughs and it isn’t like they are just all healthy. My friend happens to be paralyzed and in a wheel chair. He hates driving and has a very difficult time parking. The only problem is thta he has generally no other options. Not everyone should be entitled to drive. It is an extremely dangerous and expensive mode of transportation and we toss it up like it is nothing. It only takes one second to check a text and cause a deadly accident. It only takes one person to think they can beat a red light or they don’t have to wait to kill a pedestrian. It only took one guy not paying attention to the crosswalk to hit my friend. I completely agree that many people, especially with an aging population, have trouble getting around, but adding more car based design isn’t an answer.
10$ says that 5 sq feet of greenspace will be an unused patch of grass.
Overall, slightly better than the last one. The bank drive thru addition is unnerving.
1. Looks like bank drive-thru traffic will exit into the alley. That will most definitely conflict with people going to BRAC, who head into the alley from the Broadway/Westfield corner.
2. How would someone driving south on College or west on BR onto Westfield get into the ground-level rear parking that serves the retail? It looks as if the only way into that is from northeastbound Westfield. I don’t see how that serves transitory customers “running in” on their way to/from elsewhere; those customers are a key part of any traffic-count based business location decision.
It looks to me like they will have to enter the College Ave entrance to the garage. No real way around that and I dont see it as a big deal either.
Curt, the one-way arrows point toward College. The spaces are slant, not perpendicular.
1) The green space — yes, nobody would use it, but it’s aesthetics that we often disregard. Again, considering the generous city subsidy, we ought to expect more.
2) Drive-through — it’s so car-centric, and I guess since they are building a garage, duh, of course it is. That’s why I was not crazy about this project from the beginning.
However, overall, the good outweighs the bad…barely.
The parking entry off of Westfield is a farce to try to get leases settled and have a place for deliveries. Anyone who has driven that area at all knows that that traffic backs up onto Westfield at least 1/4 mile. Those shops will not work well for an in & out destination.The traffic exiting the bank is intriguing – I can’t see how it could work well. I am glad it’s down to a single-lane entry.
I agree with most here – this should have been a parking/retail/residential project adding density and creating opportunity for space – not sucking off of the people already there. I have a family of 5 and we ride our bikes the 2.5 miles up to BR all the time. I can’t see us riding from our normal areas over here and dealing with crossing College and back.
That corner has such a backup of traffic now, I hate thinking how much worse it will be to get across the intersection when a bunch of cars are trying to find their way into the garage.
I wonder whether it would be wiser to have the police substation facing College rather than Westfield. If the point is to have better police presence, there is more trouble with humans on the College side than between the ducks on Westfield.
Ok, this cracked me up. Fair point, sir.
Here is something to nibble on. Some details of the garage financing……….This is why we should demand better design, we pay for it!
http://www.ogdenonpolitics.com/2011/10/tale-of-broad-ripple-parking-garage.html
well, i don’t really like what i see, but i also feel i can’t really accurately judge a building based solely on the first floor plan. where are the elevations? where are the specifications?
I’d really like a architect-to-plain-English translation, personally. Especially in contrast to how it was changed from when we first saw the plans during the summer.
Planners should also be aware with any retail/restaurant at that location will also come with it deliveries, often by semi-trailers. Many of us have experienced them in an around the village. Be prepared for delays from truck deliveries, entering, exiting, etc.
depending on the size and type of restaurant, they may be able to use smaller box trucks. Lots of urban spaces get deliveries and people don’t freak out about it.
I don’t know who this Joe guy is, but he makes a lot of sense. You can’t keep pretending that you are promoting alternate modes of travel when you really keep reinforcing the existing auto-centric development pattern.
But given that the garage appears more than a done-deal (just like the permit parking system that it will depend on for forced customers), the bank drive-through entrance is accident after accident waiting to happen. You can’t have an entrance right after an entrance/exit and not expect accidents. As I’ve said many a time, I aint no engineer, but… I gotta think that’s included somewhere in Traffic Engineering 101. Cars looking to find their gap to exit onto College will see approaching southbound cars with their turn signals engaged, assume they are turning into the garage only to realize that they are proceeding on to the bank drive-through. Bam! Accident. Hopefully, a low speed one without injuries, but you can never anticipate how pedestrians, bicyclists, and other passing vehicles might become involved when the evasive maneuvers begin. If they insist upon the drive-through entrance from College, it should probably be north of the garage exit, but in any event it will definitely be a cluster.
hahaha, you are my new best friend